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View Full Version : Ecoboost, a few thoughts



flappist
29th January 2016, 12:34 PM
Now I am aware that to some there is only the V8, but the ecoboost is here, well priced and will appeal to quite a few.

Our EB is rather pedestrian with the US spec performance pack not available. That pack has 4 spot brakes among other things.
From my research on "mods" the EB can easily pick up 60kw and 68Nm with minor changes and it appears that Ford themselves actually sell upgrade kits.

This would make the EB a 290+Kw 500Nm 1600kg performance car that should easily take out SS commodores and possibly even XR6Ts and STILL be under factory warranty.

Road_Warrior
29th January 2016, 12:39 PM
Each to their own. I'm not a fan of that sort of engine in that sort of car, but I can see how it would appeal to some.

4Vman
29th January 2016, 12:42 PM
Now I am aware that to some there is only the V8, but the ecoboost is here, well priced and will appeal to quite a few.

Our EB is rather pedestrian with the US spec performance pack not available. That pack has 4 spot brakes among other things.
From my research on "mods" the EB can easily pick up 60kw and 68Nm with minor changes and it appears that Ford themselves actually sell upgrade kits.

This would make the EB a 290+Kw 500Nm 1600kg performance car that should easily take out SS commodores and possibly even XR6Ts and STILL be under factory warranty.

That may be the case but you'll be caught in the cross fire of 2 opposing forces:

1) The vast majority of people wanting a Mustang want the 5.0 and 2) those who prefer the XR6T/SS because its got 4 doors.

Id say the people who will shop for an EB Mustang will be people not interested in the performance of the vehicle nor carrying capacity.

flappist
29th January 2016, 12:42 PM
Each to their own. I'm not a fan of that sort of engine in that sort of car, but I can see how it would appeal to some.

Which really is my point. If Ford only made cars that "we" liked they would be out of business before lunchtime.

flappist
29th January 2016, 12:48 PM
That may be the case but you'll be caught in the cross fire of 2 opposing forces:

1) The vast majority of people wanting a Mustang want the 5.0 and 2) those who prefer the XR6T/SS because its got 4 doors.

Id say the people who will shop for an EB Mustang will be people not interested in the performance of the vehicle nor carrying capacity.

No that is what YOU think not everyone.

The majority want camrys etc. and the 86 sold quite well.

Yes the V8 Mustang is the big seller right now but I remember back in 2002 when the XR8 was the one everybody wanted and no one cared for the T6. There was a huge delay buying XR8s back then. Things changed rather quickly though when it was shown that the XR8 was not "the fast one".

And since then how many dozen modded "performance" XR6Ts do you see for every XR8........

Road_Warrior
29th January 2016, 12:48 PM
Id say the people who will shop for an EB Mustang will be people not interested in the performance of the vehicle nor carrying capacity.

But those people, potentially, could be a rather large market. Which in turn creates scope for factory-backed mods for the car.

4Vman
29th January 2016, 12:51 PM
No that is what YOU think not everyone.

The majority want camrys etc. and the 86 sold quite well.

Yes the V8 Mustang is the big seller right now but I remember back in 2002 when the XR8 was the one everybody wanted and no one cared for the T6. There was a huge delay buying XR8s back then. Things changed rather quickly though when it was shown that the XR8 was not "the fast one".

Of course its my opinion, just as yours is too.

Except V8 performance Falcons have consistently outsold T6 versions for just about as long as they've been available by about 2:1 regardless of performance.

Here's an idea to get sales up, maybe Ford should change the name of the EB Mustang to Cougar and it might sell more than 5%..??

flappist
29th January 2016, 12:58 PM
Of course its my opinion, just as yours is too.

Except V8 performance Falcons have consistently outsold T6 versions for just about as long as they've been available by about 2:1 regardless of performance.

Here's an idea to get sales up, maybe Ford should change the name of the EB Mustang to Cougar and it might sell more than 5%..??

Absolute garbage Norm, there are more XR6Ts than XR8s and FPVs combined....

But that is not the point of this post, it is a discussion on how to sell more EBs and make them appeal to a wider customer base.

TS50
29th January 2016, 12:59 PM
Absolute garbage Norm, there are more XR6Ts than XR8s and FPVs combined....

would prob have to agree with that
see them everywhere

4Vman
29th January 2016, 01:02 PM
For FPV at the very least the sales split (V8 to I6) while ever both were available was approx 2:1.

Thats a fact.

From BA to BF2 the sales of XR8 to XR6T are roughly 1:1.

Edit:

Its only for FG-FG2 the 6T in XR comfortably outsold the XR8 (XR8 was retired for most of that period).

For FGX XR8 outsells XR6T 3:1.

4Vman
29th January 2016, 01:14 PM
But that is not the point of this post, it is a discussion on how to sell more EBs and make them appeal to a wider customer base.

Agree.

What about my suggestion to adopt a different name to break the shackles of "Mustang must be a V8" stigma?

Lynton
29th January 2016, 01:15 PM
For FPV at the very least the sales split (V8 to I6) while ever both were available was approx 2:1.

Thats a fact.

From BA to BF2 the sales of XR8 to XR6T are roughly 1:1.

Edit:

Its only for FG the 6T in XR comfortably outsold the XR8.

For FGX XR8 outsells XR6T 3:1.

While I agree mustang is a platform that is better suited to a bent eight due to its nature I am not so sure EB does not have a place if marketed the right way. Some buyers want a sporty car with a bit of character but do not want a 8. The question what percentage of the market will the EB pick up.

Regarding the FPV 6/8 market split, let's not forget that Ford hobbled 6 sales in order to boost 8 sales because they wanted 8's to be the core business.

flappist
29th January 2016, 01:27 PM
Agree.

What about my suggestion to adopt a different name to break the shackles of "Mustang must be a V8" stigma?

In that Mustang has never really be available here and has been available in 4, 6 and 8 for decades I do not see this as a real problem outside of a small group who aren't going to buy one anyway.

flappist
29th January 2016, 01:28 PM
For FPV at the very least the sales split (V8 to I6) while ever both were available was approx 2:1.

Thats a fact.

And look what happened to FPV........

Road_Warrior
29th January 2016, 01:33 PM
And look what happened to FPV........

Well...in fairness what happened to FPV was a side-effect of Ford's decision to shitcan Australian manufacturing. Which in itself is a bigger and broader debate than just performance cars.

flappist
29th January 2016, 01:37 PM
Well...in fairness what happened to FPV was a side-effect of Ford's decision to shitcan Australian manufacturing. Which in itself is a bigger and broader debate than just performance cars.

Yes that is reasonable. My point was the "bloody minded" V8 V8 V8 all else is nothing has not helped us at all. Limiting car capability to stop massive dummy spits by a very noisy minority does not seem to have worked out well at all.

4Vman
29th January 2016, 01:39 PM
I think they need to reposition and rename the EB version.

WASP
29th January 2016, 01:45 PM
If you modify the tune of the EB Mustang the drive train will no longer be covered by warranty unless its a Ford approved modification. Is that what you are referring to Tony?

I think the EB version has great potential but will more likely be realized by non traditional mustang and Falcon buyers. These buyers are less likely to have hang ups about there being a V8 up front as the alternative options will be cars like the 370Z and Toyota 86. The modification vs delivered result equation of the EB would be far greater than either of those models I imagine. In my view the RS Focus is a greater threat the success of EB Mustang due to the sheer value and performance on offer for similar money.

Road_Warrior
29th January 2016, 01:46 PM
Yes that is reasonable. My point was the "bloody minded" V8 V8 V8 all else is nothing has not helped us at all. Limiting car capability to stop massive dummy spits by a very noisy minority does not seem to have worked out well at all.

Well - I guess you can draw a parallel there with Ford Australia's reliance (dependence?) on large cars. The mindset that large cars/Falcon sedans were FoA's bread and butter for all eternity goes hand in hand with the emphasis on performance V8's. The two were intrinsically linked for a range of reasons.

Now whilst I think that the emphasis on performance V8's hasn't had as significant an impact as you suggest, no doubt there is an issue there in that catering for one customer or one type of customer tends to alienate people who are after something else but want something Ford that goes fast, but isn't a V8. Which is great that we have access to cars like the Fiesta ST and Focus ST and RS. But ironically, in their haste to run away from Ford Australia's dependence on large cars offering performance V8's, buyers of that type of car are going to be shit out of luck after this year - in which case those buyers will go to another brand.

Contrary to offering a performance option across the board to keep everyone happy, Ford is only changing the status quo a little bit, just the products will be different and a substantial customer base will now no longer look to Ford.

4Vman
29th January 2016, 02:03 PM
It's an excellent topic Tony and worthy of a think tank.

But I don't see the overwhelming demand for V8 Mustangs as an issue at all, it's a strength for Ford.

What we should be focusing on is creating incremental demand for the EB version, not converting V8 consumers to EB.

That would be stupid business if for nothing more than the reduced ASP and resultant sales income.

Embrace and milk the V8 demand and create a different sub segment for the EB version.

Rename it Cougar and toss it head on at the 86 and 135 etc.

flappist
29th January 2016, 02:07 PM
If you modify the tune of the EB Mustang the drive train will no longer be covered by warranty unless its a Ford approved modification. Is that what you are referring to Tony?

I think the EB version has great potential but will more likely be realized by non traditional mustang and Falcon buyers. These buyers are less likely to have hang ups about there being a V8 up front as the alternative options will be cars like the 370Z and Toyota 86. The modification vs delivered result equation of the EB would be far greater than either of those models I imagine. In my view the RS Focus is a greater threat the success of EB Mustang due to the sheer value and performance on offer for similar money.

Yep that is the one. Ford Racing. I was quite surprised to see it and read the comments. Google yank EBs there is quite a bit of interesting info.

The reason I started to look is that a friend of mine is looking at buying one (red manual) but does not want a V8 due to the extra costs. In QLD the rego is about $400 dearer and fuel tends to be a bit more expensive.

I looked at the specs of ours and compared them to the yank specs and ten googled EB reviews. That's when all the info started to appear.

flappist
29th January 2016, 02:10 PM
Well - I guess you can draw a parallel there with Ford Australia's reliance (dependence?) on large cars. The mindset that large cars/Falcon sedans were FoA's bread and butter for all eternity goes hand in hand with the emphasis on performance V8's. The two were intrinsically linked for a range of reasons.

Now whilst I think that the emphasis on performance V8's hasn't had as significant an impact as you suggest, no doubt there is an issue there in that catering for one customer or one type of customer tends to alienate people who are after something else but want something Ford that goes fast, but isn't a V8. Which is great that we have access to cars like the Fiesta ST and Focus ST and RS. But ironically, in their haste to run away from Ford Australia's dependence on large cars offering performance V8's, buyers of that type of car are going to be shit out of luck after this year - in which case those buyers will go to another brand.

Contrary to offering a performance option across the board to keep everyone happy, Ford is only changing the status quo a little bit, just the products will be different and a substantial customer base will now no longer look to Ford.

And also to be fair, my only major issue is the brakes. Even FG falcons other than those fitted with brembos are grossly under braked for the weight and engine performance.

FTe217
29th January 2016, 02:28 PM
I'm keeping V8 out of the discussion here.
The EB is great option for those looking for a sports car - forget Falcon buyers, forget enthusiast's (some may dabble but hardly in numbers) - imo this car will bring incremental business to Ford as long as its marketed properly.
Its needs its own model specific image, not that of the past Pony folklore of the past to current, its own from now to the future.
Gen y's I expect will go for these, hairdressers and similar, even some of us ol school may get for the wife for eg.
The options are wide and varied, up to Ford to tap onto it, create it.

flappist
29th January 2016, 02:40 PM
One day I will remember to go over to the hairdresser at the complex in the next block and take a pic of the black SS commodore with extra dark tint, big wheels and giant exhaust rego STYLIST that is parked there.....

flappist
29th January 2016, 03:34 PM
The market changes constantly. When I was in my teens and 20s Panel Vans were THE vehicle. Utes were from farmers and tradies and sedans were for old people with families.
I remember the "old people" (30s and 40s) wandering about in their Monaros, GTs and Chargers and while they all looked cool neither I nor anyone I knew had even the slightest interest in buying one.

We all had Panelvans. I had 2 XCs and an XD, my friends had various XW, XY, XA, XB and XC as well as HD, HR, HK, HT, HG, HQ and HJ with the odd Valiant, Escort and Gemini.
Very few were V8 as they cost too much to buy/operate and we were much more interesting in partying and spending the night with whichever young lady we could con into staying than dropping burnouts and pretend racing.

All of that is ancient history now but at the time it was what the market wanted.

I remember in the late 80s early 90s when V8s were finished for ever and everyone had an "eco-gauge" instead of a tacho.
I remember when Toyota, Mazda and Nissan (Datsun) all moved from RWD to FWD.
I remember when speed didn't kill instantly, a couple of beers did not make you a maniac and road safety was not a profit centre.

Things change and if we do not accept this then we will be left behind......

4Vman
29th January 2016, 04:17 PM
Tony, are you trying to come up with ideas to increase acceptance of the EB Mustang and create incremental business for Ford, i.e erode 86/370/135 sales OR... rid the world of V8's by somehow converting consumers who want them to other engine options?

If Ford are selling 2000 V8 Mustangs and 150 EB Mustangs a year why wouldn't you continue to try to cater to those 2000 customers while at the same time increasing on the 150 EB sales by positioning it differently to a different type of customer rather than trying to turn 2000 V8 sales into 1000 V8 sales and 1000 EB sales?

flappist
29th January 2016, 04:19 PM
No I am trying to think of ways to get new buyers and the whole "hairdresser" mentality is not doing anything positive for either Ford or Mustang

4Vman
29th January 2016, 04:23 PM
No I am trying to think of ways to get new buyers and the whole "hairdresser" mentality is not doing anything positive for either Ford or Mustang

It doesn't hurt Toyota, Nissan or BMW with their little coupes.

As I said, rename it Cougar or Probe, and pitch it hard at that segment.

flappist
29th January 2016, 04:49 PM
It doesn't hurt Toyota, Nissan or BMW with their little coupes.

As I said, rename it Cougar or Probe, and pitch it hard at that segment.

Yep and that will be as well accepted as calling the Falcon GT a TS50.

It is a world wide marque.

4Vman
29th January 2016, 04:59 PM
Yep and that will be as well accepted as calling the Falcon GT a TS50.

It is a world wide marque.

But its not helping here for the EB Mustang either is it.

Its a US marque finally going global...

Australians who want a Mustang Want a V8 Mustang, no point fighting it.

Embrace it and milk it.

Find ways to make the EB Mustang more acceptable to other markets not try to change the consumer to fit something they don't want or you'll turn 2000 sales a year into 200 over night.

flappist
29th January 2016, 05:13 PM
But its not helping here for the EB Mustang either is it.

Its a US marque finally going global...

Australians who want a Mustang Want a V8 Mustang, no point fighting it.

Embrace it and milk it.

Find ways to make the EB Mustang more acceptable to other markets not try to change the consumer to fit something they don't want or you'll turn 2000 sales a year into 200 over night.

You mean like Australians who want a family sedan want a RWD V8?
Quick tell Toyota as they hardly sell any Camrys or Aurions.

The V8 Mustang market I suspect will be made up of ex HSV/FPV/SS/XR buyers which is a tiny part of the Australian market.

There are lots of people who buy 86/MX5/BRZ/Golf/whatever and THEY are just sitting their waiting to buy........something.

You really do have to get over your V8 fixation. The vast majority do not want V8s, if they did then every marque would have an option rather just a few.

4Vman
29th January 2016, 05:18 PM
I think its more that you have an anti V8 fixation to be honest.

Don't argue with me, argue with the vast majority of the 3000+ people who ordered a V8 Mustang over the EB version.

A very large % of them own classic Mustangs too apparently and are not traditional FPV/XR consumers.

defective
29th January 2016, 05:32 PM
I think its more that you have an anti V8 fixation to be honest.

Don't argue with me, argue with the vast majority of the 3000+ people who ordered a V8 Mustang over the EB version.

A very large % of them own classic Mustangs too apparently and are not traditional FPV/XR consumers.

Not to mention the 50% or more of new commodore buyers who all tick the v8 box.
There is still a lucrative market for v8s, and I don't see it needing to be eroded to prop up eb sales.

I think the horse has bolted as far as renaming the eb as something other than mustang, and thank god if cougar and probe are the best we can come up with haha.

Eb will sell on its own merits, but it will take time. And for the eb drivers it will be like owning a 5.4 xr8.... First question will always be 'why didn't you get the faster model?' As good as the eb is, mod for mod the 5.0 will always keep it at bay.

flappist
29th January 2016, 05:33 PM
I think its more that you have an anti V8 fixation to be honest.

Don't argue with me, argue with the vast majority of the 3000+ people who ordered a V8 Mustang over the EB version.

A very large % of them own classic Mustangs too apparently and are not traditional FPV/XR consumers.

No I am just "anti artificial limits".

I just went and looked up a random month last year, May 2015.
Top 10 cars totaled about 24,000
Commodores was 2200
If half were V8s then that is 1100.
Every other model was 6 or 4.

So of the the top 10 selling cars less than 5% were V8s

4Vman
29th January 2016, 05:41 PM
Look up mustang sales in Australia seeing that's the topic...

flappist
29th January 2016, 05:46 PM
Look up mustang sales in Australia seeing that's the topic...

There are none.....

But this really shows the major problem here.

How can the sales of EBs be increased?

Oh no oh no everyone who wants a Mustang wants a V8 so the only way to increase sales of EBs is to cut back on V8s.

Lets put shit on the EB so more buy the V8s.

4Vman
29th January 2016, 05:48 PM
There are none.....

Lol fair point!

Although Ford have said over 90% of orders are GT Mustangs.

defective
29th January 2016, 05:52 PM
No I am just "anti artificial limits".

I just went and looked up a random month last year, May 2015.
Top 10 cars totaled about 24,000
Commodores was 2200
If half were V8s then that is 1100.
Every other model was 6 or 4.

So of the the top 10 selling cars less than 5% were V8s

But how many v8s were sold in total? It's may be a niche market, but it's there and won't be ignored.

Chrysler would hardly bother with a Australia specific model if they didn't think it was worth it. V8 euros sell in respectable numbers considering the prices, v8 jeeps seem to be everywhere now.
A progressive company like Hyundai bringing in a brand new v8... Will it get here? Maybe maybe not, but they see a world market still for v8s.

Bluestuff1
29th January 2016, 06:02 PM
Back a few months, Ford NZ had at the time, 300 mustangs on order, about 3 were EB I4T.
that speaks for itself i think.

In ten years from now, probably the EB mustang will increase in numbers, but at present i think only the enthusiastic drivers will buy a v8 hoss.
I think it will change slowly as the young " turbo tech" grow up and will have become familiar with the Tech stuff.
As they become flush with disposable cash they will buy a Mustang "toy" . ecoboost....

defective
29th January 2016, 06:07 PM
Back a few months, Ford NZ had at the time, 300 mustangs on order, about 3 were EB I4T.
that speaks for itself i think.

In ten years from now, probably the EB mustang will increase in numbers, but at present i think only the enthusiastic drivers will buy a v8 hoss.
I think it will change slowly as the young " turbo tech" grow up and will have become familiar with the Tech stuff.
As they become flush with disposable cash they will buy a Mustang "toy" . ecoboost....

I,don't know that it will take that long, young guys are more connected than ever, and at the moment there is bugger all available if you want a sporty coupe.

All those YouTube clips of hipo ecoboost mustangs haven't gone unnoticed. At the moment focus Rs is in the limelight, once people start to add 2+2 together and realise the mustang has the same motor and rwd, and presuming ford ever plus finger from ass and actually sorts out availability it will sell.

4Vman
29th January 2016, 06:21 PM
The EB Mustang will be priced above what the average 20 something can afford to spend on a car.

It will gain acceptance over time no doubt as people look at them as alternatives to 86/370 etc.

Lynton
29th January 2016, 08:01 PM
I hate to say it but i can see where Tony is coming from. He and I are not anti V8, we have actually owned a few collectively. The point is we can see the way the market is going. To say that the market wants large sedans with RWD and V8 because GT outsold F6 2:1 and 50% of Commodore sales are V8 is a bit shortsighted. They are the facts for both but when you look at the sales figures for any month of any year in the last decade large sedans have been a declining market, V8 sales have been declining and the result is the death of both Falcon and Commodore. Sure SS commodores are selling, XR8 is selling but I bet WRX is outselling them. The younger market no longer want V8's as a majority, so many are into the smaller high power turbos and perhaps EB Mustang could be marketed to entice them into the blue oval. Sure some want V8's but why ignore an untapped market like we have done for so long?

I always wonder what would have happened if Ford and FPV had spent half the marketing dollar on F6 and XRT that they did XR8 and GT? What would the sales have been like if XR6T and F6 did not have their power so significantly understated to save V8 sales, badge numbers do sell cars?

jpd80
29th January 2016, 08:28 PM
Random thought,
My contact at the US plant tells me that the US only 3.7 V6 will be replaced by the 2.7 Ecoboost,
presumably later this year. I wonder if this vehicle will be on Australia's radar....

I suspect maybe he's seen a couple of prototypes come down the line...

Road_Warrior
29th January 2016, 09:18 PM
Random thought,
My contact at the US plant tells me that the US only 3.7 V6 will be replaced by the 2.7 Ecoboost,
presumably later this year. I wonder if this vehicle will be on Australia's radar....

I suspect maybe he's seen a couple of prototypes come down the line...

Wow now that would set the cat amongst the pigeons.

andrewforbes
30th January 2016, 03:50 AM
Information, if the potential customers don't know about it why would they consider it.
I think u need to highlight EB's good points,
Show the benefits of the car,
Cheaper to run
Cheaper to rego
Cheaper to insure, would have to check it's classification to c if it's cheaper for younger people.
Cheaper to maintain
Perfect car for a p plater, don't have worry about 4 doors cause most p platers have a restriction on number of passengers
Proven reliability
Proformance upgrades available through Ford performance if u feel the need to increase it's power
What has this car got over it's competition.
I don't think trying to encourage v8 buyers into an eb would work, if a family comes in to look at a mustang say you'll give them a great deal when it's time for the kids to get a car.
But I firmly believe if the masses aren't informed they would not consider it, so tell them. Every chance u get to show an eb off do so, if u sponsor a club take one there for the day n show it or car shows. Most of the younger Gen care more about the environment n not the size of there motor, eco boost = eco friendly In a whole lot of ways.
Communication is key

Lynton
30th January 2016, 04:03 AM
Information, if the potential customers don't know about it why would they consider it.
I think u need to highlight EB's good points,
Show the benefits of the car,
Cheaper to run
Cheaper to rego
Cheaper to insure, would have to check it's classification to c if it's cheaper for younger people.
Cheaper to maintain
Perfect car for a p plater, don't have worry about 4 doors cause most p platers have a restriction on number of passengers
Proven reliability
Proformance upgrades available through Ford performance if u feel the need to increase it's power
What has this car got over it's competition.
I don't think trying to encourage v8 buyers into an eb would work, if a family comes in to look at a mustang say you'll give them a great deal when it's time for the kids to get a car.
But I firmly believe if the masses aren't informed they would not consider it, so tell them. Every chance u get to show an eb off do so, if u sponsor a club take one there for the day n show it or car shows. Most of the younger Gen care more about the environment n not the size of there motor, eco boost = eco friendly In a whole lot of ways.
Communication is key

It would be classed as a performance turbo car which would make it illegal for P platers in many states.

Bluestuff1
30th January 2016, 06:22 AM
Information, if the potential customers don't know about it why would they consider it.
I think u need to highlight EB's good points,
Show the benefits of the car,
Cheaper to run
Cheaper to rego
Cheaper to insure, would have to check it's classification to c if it's cheaper for younger people.
Cheaper to maintain
Perfect car for a p plater, don't have worry about 4 doors cause most p platers have a restriction on number of passengers
Proven reliability
Proformance upgrades available through Ford performance if u feel the need to increase it's power
What has this car got over it's competition.
I don't think trying to encourage v8 buyers into an eb would work, if a family comes in to look at a mustang say you'll give them a great deal when it's time for the kids to get a car.
But I firmly believe if the masses aren't informed they would not consider it, so tell them. Every chance u get to show an eb off do so, if u sponsor a club take one there for the day n show it or car shows. Most of the younger Gen care more about the environment n not the size of there motor, eco boost = eco friendly In a whole lot of ways.
Communication is key

I think you got the point by saying the Eb will not attract many traditional V8 buyers, ie will over time attract younger buyers who like the " tech" involved in developing this car will be drawn to to it.

4Vman
30th January 2016, 06:45 AM
If some of you were my sales staff id sack you.

Mustang V8 is selling like hotcakes but some want to try to convert those consumers over to a cheaper product?

Lunacy.

Forget all about the V8 GT Mustang. Its kicking arse, do not interfere with that. Milk it.

Focus on how to make the EB much more appealing to a new, different type of customer to create INCREMENTAL additional sales, not substitute 1 for 1.....

Yes of course technology is changing and the N/A V8 engine wont be round forever but once people no longer have that option they have to buy the alternative don't they so why upset the applecart before you have to.

A TT V6 engine option would be the logical avenue to pursue in the future too to support the EB and provide a suitable replacement to the V8 but as it currently stands they need to find a way to make people look at the EB version instead of OTHER coupe products i.e 86/370 etc not the GT...

Personally I think long term viability of Mustang as a product will follow the life span of the V8 engine in the future...

I completely understand and embrace the progression to newer, cheaper to manufacture engine alternatives but equally I think a product like Mustang simply wont be a Mustang without a V8 engine as an option.

Jut my opinion, time will tell.

Bluestuff1
30th January 2016, 08:00 AM
If some of you were my sales staff id sack you.

Mustang V8 is selling like hotcakes but some want to try to convert those consumers over to a cheaper product?

Lunacy.

Forget all about the V8 GT Mustang. Its kicking arse, do not interfere with that. Milk it.

Focus on how to make the EB much more appealing to a new, different type of customer to create INCREMENTAL additional sales, not substitute 1 for 1.....

Yes of course technology is changing and the N/A V8 engine wont be round forever but once people no longer have that option they have to buy the alternative don't they so why upset the applecart before you have to.

A TT V6 engine option would be the logical avenue to pursue in the future too to support the EB and provide a suitable replacement to the V8 but as it currently stands they need to find a way to make people look at the EB version instead of OTHER coupe products i.e 86/370 etc not the GT...

Personally I think long term viability of Mustang as a product will follow the life span of the V8 engine in the future...

I completely understand and embrace the progression to newer, cheaper to manufacture engine alternatives but equally I think a product like Mustang simply wont be a Mustang without a V8 engine as an option.

Jut my opinion, time will tell.

I agree, ( i think) that those currently buying mustang are buying an iconic v8 product, that the eb is here to try to tap into a new younger market who would otherwise be buying jap or euro compact performance cars.
The absence of the v6 i think is an effort to avoid conflict with the v8 .
To address you question of how to attract younger " tech" buyers is a tough one.
The obvious avenue is of course to see it sucessufull in motor sport, but that door is closed so were else is there to grandstand a T4 engine, i don't know, as I'm not that demographic so have no ideas on that.
I think ford underestimated v8 demand, and over estimated T4 demand in this part of the world.
I still think it will struggle for a few years, a T4 still doesn't sit well with the current demographic so take up will be slow unless there is some avenue to display it to the masses as an alternative power scours .

4Vman
30th January 2016, 08:21 AM
I don't agree at all that the EB should be Pidgeon holed as a "young" persons car either, its certainly not priced in the 20-30k price point.

If anything it would appeal to a broader age range and just as much more mature drivers who have moved past the need for noise and performance and can tend to focus on being conservative with running costs.

My Brother in law who is late 50's just bought an 86, the kids have move out so no need for passenger capacity or going a bazillion miles per hour, it was a present to himself.

flappist
30th January 2016, 09:34 AM
On the other hand Norm, sales staff who keep shitcanning the EB and tell them they NEED the V8 will tend to piss the customer off and lose them to another dealer who may or may not sell Ford.

Also selling is about money not products.

Which is the better salesman. They guy who sells the $60k V8 and makes $3k or the guy who sells the 40k EB, makes $4k and then sets the "ming moll" up to sell another $5k of after market product as "they have saved so much" and THEN sells a factory approved tune and other goodies for another $5k?

The customer is as happy they are $10k better off, will use less petrol and pay lower rego and insurance and the dealer is happy that are $5k-10k better off.

defective
30th January 2016, 09:37 AM
Don't forget people were paying mid to high 40s for the top spec 86 when it was first released, plenty of customers will to lay the cash for the right product, it just needs to be advertised right.

4Vman
30th January 2016, 12:09 PM
On the other hand Norm, sales staff who keep shitcanning the EB and tell them they NEED the V8 will tend to piss the customer off and lose them to another dealer who may or may not sell Ford.

Also selling is about money not products.

Which is the better salesman. They guy who sells the $60k V8 and makes $3k or the guy who sells the 40k EB, makes $4k and then sets the "ming moll" up to sell another $5k of after market product as "they have saved so much" and THEN sells a factory approved tune and other goodies for another $5k?

The customer is as happy they are $10k better off, will use less petrol and pay lower rego and insurance and the dealer is happy that are $5k-10k better off.

Could it possibly be that people actually prefer the V8 Mustang over the EB because its a V8??

Using your logic Mercedes should give up on AMG and stop selling V8 C63's over T4 C series Diesels, I mean that will save the customer a heap of money and petrol right?.

No point painting an unrealistic artificial scenario to try to justify your wish to eradicate all V8's from showrooms.

There's no reason not to work with the assumption that all products receive a similar % markup so at the end of the day regardless of add-ons etc the larger the invoice value the greater the profit or at the very least greater opportunity for profit.....

To answer your question the better salesman is the one who sold 2 Mustangs not 1: an EB and a GT not convert a $65K sale into a $50k one....

I thought your idea was about trying to help boost EB sales? not convert V8 sales...

Creating internal competition between models backwards is plain silly business.

Id prefer to see them sell more EB's without impacting V8 sales.

andrewforbes
30th January 2016, 02:01 PM
Totally agree, trying to sell the eb to a v8 customer is just stupid n v8's should be milked.
The only reason I suggested the younger Gen for the eb was that they really have no connection to v8 pony cars, have never seen them raced let alone driven around, yes there will be some that have a connection to the old days n that's probably through dad or mum owning an old mustang, so v8 will be something they want. I guess in some way we to have no connection to the old days, some of us weren't even born, but who of us haven't heard of moff n his stang, we also grew up in an era when the v8 ruled all. But times they r a changing, highlight the good points of the eb n allow word to grow. Your traditional v8 guys won't have bar of it but that leaves everyone else as a potential client, so next time a focus, 6 cyd falcon owner brings there car in for a service offer to let them take a convertible eb as a loan car, create an image, an emotion. full tank of gas, Top down on a sunny day cruising around at next to no cost. Offer an incentive to those that have bought one to spread the word, so for every potential customers that comes in to look, test drive or buy one, give a reward to a proven connection to an existing owner, offer service discount, upgrade discount, merchandise, car detailing etc it's going to take time for people to see an eb stang as an alternative.

4Vman
30th January 2016, 02:07 PM
Perfect

4Vman
30th January 2016, 04:28 PM
Apparently this is the stereotype Mustang customer at the moment.

Massive interest and purchase reaction from classic Mustang enthusiasts and Mature owners looking for a weekend toy..

A large % will also be weekenders only.

This of course wont go on for ever so its vital the product can appeal to other buyers too.

This is where the EB Mustang can be slotted at non Musclecar/traditional V8 type consumers who would normally buy 86/370/135/MX3 etc.

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12642784_1727384197548236_7269126802235676583_n.jp g?oh=06d6787954d3fc09533f4c94a6e20ed5&oe=57457A12

prydey
30th January 2016, 07:03 PM
If some of you were my sales staff id sack you.

Mustang V8 is selling like hotcakes but some want to try to convert those consumers over to a cheaper product?

Lunacy.

Forget all about the V8 GT Mustang. Its kicking arse, do not interfere with that. Milk it.

Focus on how to make the EB much more appealing to a new, different type of customer to create INCREMENTAL additional sales, not substitute 1 for 1.....

.

i must have restricted viewing of the thread, because i'm not seeing any posts where people are saying to convert v8 customers to EB. I'm just reading people thinking of ways to have the EB mustang be in the limelight as well.

mustang is mustang, regardless of what is under the bonnet. there is a large % of customers that must have a v8 under the bonnet to live with themselves, but there are also those out there that would be happy to own a mustang regardless of powertrain. there is probably also customers out there that would love to own a new mustang, but DON'T want a 'big thirsty v8'.

4Vman
30th January 2016, 07:19 PM
i must have restricted viewing of the thread, because i'm not seeing any posts where people are saying to convert v8 customers to EB. I'm just reading people thinking of ways to have the EB mustang be in the limelight as well.

mustang is mustang, regardless of what is under the bonnet. there is a large % of customers that must have a v8 under the bonnet to live with themselves, but there are also those out there that would be happy to own a mustang regardless of powertrain. there is probably also customers out there that would love to own a new mustang, but DON'T want a 'big thirsty v8'.

Yes clearly you must:



Which is the better salesman. They guy who sells the $60k V8 and makes $3k or the guy who sells the 40k EB, makes $4k and then sets the "ming moll" up to sell another $5k of after market product as "they have saved so much" and THEN sells a factory approved tune and other goodies for another $5k?

The customer is as happy they are $10k better off, will use less petrol and pay lower rego and insurance and the dealer is happy that are $5k-10k better off.


As ive clearly outlined.

Its vital for Ford that EB gains acceptance in the markets its likely to be most effective in (incremental sales), the premise behind Tony's first post is both sound and a worthy topic.

But its equally vital the GT sales which come at a significantly higher return for Ford and the dealer remain strong too.

If one cannibalizes the other (as has been suggested should happen) with no nett gain in volume it would result in a significant loss of income to both Ford and the Dealers.

Bluestuff1
31st January 2016, 06:13 AM
i thought we have decided that v8 and eb are different demographics, and that given a little more time and marketing will eventually see eb grow its customer base..?

flappist
1st February 2016, 09:17 AM
Could it possibly be that people actually prefer the V8 Mustang over the EB because its a V8??

Using your logic Mercedes should give up on AMG and stop selling V8 C63's over T4 C series Diesels, I mean that will save the customer a heap of money and petrol right?.

No point painting an unrealistic artificial scenario to try to justify your wish to eradicate all V8's from showrooms.

There's no reason not to work with the assumption that all products receive a similar % markup so at the end of the day regardless of add-ons etc the larger the invoice value the greater the profit or at the very least greater opportunity for profit.....

To answer your question the better salesman is the one who sold 2 Mustangs not 1: an EB and a GT not convert a $65K sale into a $50k one....

I thought your idea was about trying to help boost EB sales? not convert V8 sales...

Creating internal competition between models backwards is plain silly business.

Id prefer to see them sell more EB's without impacting V8 sales.

Yes SOME people prefer the V8 because it is a V8 but not everyone.

My point is the whole "It has to be a V8" mentality pissing off those who have no interest whatsoever in buying a V8 and I know that you will not believe this the THIS IS THE MAJORITY.
Now just to make this clear before you go off about how many V8 commodores are sold every day and how the orders for Mustang are mostly V8s I am talking about MOTOR VEHICLE buyers not LARGE RWD V8 buyers.

In the case of Mustang, if there was only a V8 model and no other I believe that it would not do particularly well in the long term.
This is supported by the simple fact that the yanks make 4 and 6 cylinder models and have done so for many years. They would not do this if there was no market.

The Mustang would sell really well for the first year or so as all of those who were waiting for it grabbed one but once they had bought the sales would die in the bum.

This is exactly what happened with FPV. In the first year there were thousands of GTs, GT-Ps and Pursuits sold. GT and GT-P build numbers were into 4 digits.
There was a HUGE amount of anticipation over the return of the "Falcon GT" with lots of positive buzz in the media, both social and professional.

Then it slowed and they trickled out for the next decade or so until it was all over.

It became quite obvious very quickly that the actual core of the FPV market was "GT with stripes". Everything else they tried just did not work as the F6, Force, whatever all just cannibalised the remainder of the Falcon demographic drawing very little from outside. And once the "GT with stripes" market was saturated there were a few "special models" all carefully limited in numbers so as to ensure that they sold them all.

Mustang is a NEW product on the Australian market. It has no "Falcon Heritage" so will not automatically be disliked by the holden bogans and ricers and this should be taken advantage of as quickly as possible.

Mustang is not a 2 door Falcon GT substitute, it is an entire range of vehicles that is designed to have something for everyone not just something for the angry ants that can't buy a HSV, SS or XR anymore.

There is a bit of a "sell EB to V8 buyer is wrong" mindset that is clouding the whole issue.
YES YOU SELL A V8 TO A V8 BUYER.

What you do not do is assume that everyone is a V8 buyer and keep pushing them in that direction as you will just piss them off and they will go somewhere else and buy something else.

Some people might want a V8 but it is not available to them due to delays, costs, not fitting into some buying program or any number of reasons.
Do you let these walk or do you sell them something else?

In 2008 after buying 3 FPVs in a row (GT-P + 2xF6) I was looking at buying the FG version of the Force 6 but was told by Ford themselves that there would never be one (F6-E) and that the FG F6 complete with panda eyes and the whole "fast and furious boy racer catalogue" is the only option with a 6 month delay, like it or lump it. I was told I could have a GT-E but I was not interested in it at all which confused the sales people as it was a V8 and everyone wants V8s regardless of performance don't they.

I bought another brand and never bought another FPV again.

I am quite aware that many on here do not want anything except the V8 (any many do not want one at all) but to think that you are the "normal" car buyer is just pure arrogance and naivety as there is no such thing as a "normal" car buyer and regardless of what you think is the "best car" the majority disagree with you.

If this were not the case then the largest selling car in the country The Toyota Corolla, would be more than about 4% of the whole market. (figures based on 2014 data)

PG2
1st February 2016, 09:40 AM
I agree that not everyone is a V8 buyer, in fact V8 buyers are becoming less and less every year. Not knocking the XR8, it's a great car, but when it first came out people snapped them up. However the demand has died off to the point that they included them in the recent finance offer - the total opposite attitude compared to when they first got released and weren't included in fleet pricing and Ford employees couldn't buy one at staff pricing due to such high demand. I understand that Sprint may have something to do with this but this only confirms the theory that enthusiasts are the main buyer of V8s.

Anyway, back on topic, where are the buyers going to come from for the EB Mustang? For similar money, you can buy a Focus ST or RS. Is there a large enough market out there for 2 door coupes in Australia?

flappist
1st February 2016, 11:05 AM
I agree that not everyone is a V8 buyer, in fact V8 buyers are becoming less and less every year. Not knocking the XR8, it's a great car, but when it first came out people snapped them up. However the demand has died off to the point that they included them in the recent finance offer - the total opposite attitude compared to when they first got released and weren't included in fleet pricing and Ford employees couldn't buy one at staff pricing due to such high demand. I understand that Sprint may have something to do with this but this only confirms the theory that enthusiasts are the main buyer of V8s.

Anyway, back on topic, where are the buyers going to come from for the EB Mustang? For similar money, you can buy a Focus ST or RS. Is there a large enough market out there for 2 door coupes in Australia?

If I had said to you 20 years ago the there would be a absolutely ENORMOUS market for luxury twin cab utes what would your reply had been?

4Vman
1st February 2016, 12:10 PM
Ok, let me put it another way.

I don't believe there is dealer negativity towards EB or intent to sell one engine over the other per say, its more about selling the more expensive version over the cheaper one.

The simple fact is the GT Mustang brings in more money to the dealer than the EB Mustang.

No different to any good selling practices, you sell up where ever you can. its common sense.

G6E over G6, Titanium over Trend etc.

It just so happens that consumer demand and awareness of the GT Mustang is as much romantic as it is common sense.

Next time there's a classic Mustang show go do a cylinder count..... Let me know how many 4 or 6cyls you find.

These are the people buying Mustang apparently.

I sat through the sale of my friends Mustang, dealer was all set to tick the EB box because she was a Woman, when she said "no i want the GT Mustang" he looked at her a bit puzzled (actually i think he got a bit excited)..

Anyway she WANTED the GT Mustang, despite it being nearly 20k more expensive.

Any salesman that tried to convert a fairly certain GT sale into an EB sale would be sacked in my business.

The natural fall back to the EB version is when price or operating costs come into the discussion. I also dont believe for one second anyone would refuse to sell an EB Mustang over a GT if the customer is a best fit for the EB.

I'll say it again, they need to be creating demand for the EB version without cannibalizing GT sales.

But id be instructing my sales people to try to sell the GT first and assess price sensitivity and part of the discovery discussion.

4Vman
1st February 2016, 12:23 PM
Tony what i will say is i absolutely agree with you that if Ford sit back and rely on the V8 as its main draw-card to Mustang it will suffer long term.

Absolutely agree.

As ive said, its vital the EB is positioned against its main rivals in the lower price point to be a success but equally Ford will need to come up with a TTV6 version to power the GT Mustang long term too.

I fear the current hysteria around Mustang is pent up demand and not sustainable long term at the current rates regardless of what engine is under the hood.

flappist
1st February 2016, 12:25 PM
Any salesman that tried to convert a fairly certain GT sale into an EB sale woulds be sacked in my business.

And that really says it all......

4Vman
1st February 2016, 12:28 PM
Yes SOME people prefer the V8 because it is a V8 but not everyone.

My point is the whole "It has to be a V8" mentality pissing off those who have no interest whatsoever in buying a V8 and I know that you will not believe this the THIS IS THE MAJORITY.


Tony, EVERY single person who bought a GT Mustang WANTED a GT Mustang.

End of story.

4Vman
1st February 2016, 12:29 PM
And that really says it all......

So you'd rather take a 50K sale over a certain 65k sale?

I do not believe you.

Are you seriously trying to suggest Dealers should be talking people out of the GT into the EB because effectively you don't like V8's????

Stop worrying about what's under the hood.

In Mondeo terms what i'm suggesting is effectively the same as pushing the Trend as well as the Titanium...

Not instead of....

flappist
1st February 2016, 01:08 PM
So you'd rather take a 50K sale over a certain 65k sale?

I do not believe you.

Are you seriously trying to suggest Dealers should be talking people out of the GT into the EB because effectively you don't like V8's????

Stop worrying about what's under the hood.

In Mondeo terms what i'm suggesting is effectively the same as pushing the Trend as well as the Titanium...

Not instead of....

No I would rather make a $10,000 sale and make $5,000 profit than a $100,000 sale and make $4000 profit.
I would not try to sell the $100,000 item because I personally liked it more than the $10,000 one.

As far as like V8s or not like V8s, if I bought one personally, spare issue not withstanding, I would buy the V8.

I learned a long time ago that selling only things that I like is very foolish as the majority of people do not like what I like and do not even like what each other likes.
I have owned/own several retail businesses that sold/sell a variety of items, most of which I personally would not buy, I am in business to SELL for MONEY not BUY for ENTHUSIASM.

4Vman
1st February 2016, 01:10 PM
No I would rather make a $10,000 sale and make $5,000 profit than a $100,000 sale and make $4000 profit.
I would not try to sell the $100,000 item because I personally liked it more than the $10,000 one.

As far as like V8s or not like V8s, if I bought one personally, spare issue not withstanding, I would buy the V8.

I learned a long time ago that selling only things that I like is very foolish as the majority of people do not like what I like and do not even like what each other likes.
I have owned/own several retail businesses that sold/sell a variety of items, most of which I personally would not buy, I am in business to SELL for MONEY not BUY for ENTHUSIASM.
Of course, this is what i'm suggesting, push the product that makes you the most money.

Also you need to consider cash flow too....

The dealers are selling EVERY Mustang at RRP. Both Ford and the Dealers are getting the exact profit they want.

What makes you think they would make more money from an EB sale over a GT sale????

If Ford or the Dealers mark both up by the same % the more expensive one makes you more money.

I think its much more likely they make more $profit from the more expensive sale not the cheaper one....

If anything i can see them needing to discount the EB version to get sales moving.

flappist
1st February 2016, 01:37 PM
Of course, this is what i'm suggesting, push the product that makes you the most money.

Also you need to consider cash flow too....

The dealers are selling EVERY Mustang at RRP. Both Ford and the Dealers are getting the exact profit they want.

What makes you think they would make more money from an EB sale over a GT sale????

If Ford or the Dealers mark both up by the same % the more expensive one makes you more money.

I think its much more likely they make more $profit from the more expensive sale not the cheaper one....

If anything i can see them needing to discount the EB version to get sales moving.

30 years experience......

13726548
1st February 2016, 05:51 PM
I think i need to drive one of these...

PG2
1st February 2016, 08:55 PM
If I had said to you 20 years ago the there would be a absolutely ENORMOUS market for luxury twin cab utes what would your reply had been?

Not trying to be a smart arse but in '94 the boss and I agreed that we should start specialising in 4x4 and commercials at the car yard I was working at. We generally made a killing.

I agree with you in regards to needing to increase incremental sales of the EB - I just don't know where these buyers are going to come from. Just because other cars have become popular today that we thought wouldn't 20 years doesn't mean coupes will become popular - not saying they won't be but based on my experiences at this point in time, they aren't the most popular at the moment.

While discussing future V8 mustang sales, what are everyone's thoughts on repeat business? Are people buying V8 mustangs as dailies or weekenders? If they are being bought as weekenders therefore not clocking up ks as quickly as dailies will people update as often? Are people in 5 years time going to buy another mustang or try something different?

4Vman
1st February 2016, 09:04 PM
Not trying to be a smart arse but in '94 the boss and I agreed that we should start specialising in 4x4 and commercials at the car yard I was working at. We generally made a killing.

I agree with you in regards to needing to increase incremental sales of the EB - I just don't know where these buyers are going to come from. Just because other cars have become popular today that we thought wouldn't 20 years doesn't mean coupes will become popular.

While discussing future V8 mustang sales, what are everyone's thoughts on repeat business? Are people buying V8 mustangs as dailies or weekenders? If they are being bought as weekenders therefore not clocking up ks as quickly as dailies will people update as often? Are people in 5 years time going to buy another mustang or try something different?
That is the big question we won't know the answer to till 2020, how many Mustang sales are once in a life time sales v lease sales with repeat purchase.

This is potentially where the EB could become appealing, user chooser lease on a budget.

jpd80
1st February 2016, 09:19 PM
Years ago in the USA the 2.3 Turbo Mustang was known as SVT,
maybe calling the EB Mustang SVT might be more palatable.

The EB Mustang with the right floor stock could be ideal for walk ins....

PG2
1st February 2016, 09:20 PM
Even if they do become a one off purchase I hope the Mustang attracts buyers that would have otherwise not have bought a Ford and when they do update they stay within the Ford family.

This is what I meant when I said in another thread about hero cars.

jpd80
1st February 2016, 09:24 PM
I doubt that Mustang will be a one off purchase for many buyers, you can bet Ford has some
impressive updates planned at the first refresh, more power, 10-speed auto... all the stuff
people look for in a car that's being improved.

4Vman
1st February 2016, 09:27 PM
I doubt that Mustang will be a one off purchase for many buyers, you can bet Ford has some
impressive updates planned at the first refresh, more power, 10-speed auto... all the stuff
people look for in a car that's being improved.

I think Ford will need to get more from the S550 platform over the next 4 years than a single product or I suspect it could follow Falcon.

Futura
4th February 2016, 08:51 PM
Just test drove a EB mustang. Stright into racemode, handles very well, looks amazing in red with black wheels. Found the front bonnet to be very long. Motor felt tight, not bad for a small ecoboost engine.
Brakes are pretty good. Had alot of smoke coming out of them after my drive.

Randel
4th February 2016, 09:11 PM
Just test drove a EB mustang. Stright into racemode, handles very well, looks amazing in red with black wheels. Found the front bonnet to be very long. Motor felt tight, not bad for a small ecoboost engine.
Brakes are pretty good. Had alot of smoke coming out of them after my drive.

I bet you wont be trading the GTF on one though :highly_amused:

4Vman
4th February 2016, 09:14 PM
Just test drove a EB mustang. Stright into racemode, handles very well, looks amazing in red with black wheels. Found the front bonnet to be very long. Motor felt tight, not bad for a small ecoboost engine.
Brakes are pretty good. Had alot of smoke coming out of them after my drive.

Present for the Mrs?

Top bloke!

Futura
4th February 2016, 09:35 PM
I bet you wont be trading the GTF on one though :highly_amused:

The GTF is a keeper.

Futura
4th February 2016, 09:44 PM
Present for the Mrs?

Top bloke!

Nah Mrs wants a new house.

If I was to buy a mustang it would be a V8 for me.

Futura
4th February 2016, 09:54 PM
One cool feature are the heated and cooling seats mode function. Cooling seats mode will be great here in australia in summer. Especially with leather seats.

The projected horse light logo looks pretty cool too.

Unfortunately No line locker option in the menu.

dash gt
5th February 2016, 09:28 AM
Some people will do anything to get the "image". Buying a 4 cylinder Mustang gives them that option. Cheap fuel, cheaper buy in and Better wheels (lol).

HSE2
5th February 2016, 11:55 AM
Someone is going to have to translate exactly what this thread is about in simple terms because I dont get it.


If you are talking about Mustang in relation to V8 demand or desirability, its got alot to do with the age of the mustang itself more than just the phycology of the engine mindset.

I wouldn't own a ecoboost mustang. I dont care what mods it can do, dont care how much I would save. For me there is a heritage aspect that dictates that the V8 is part of that mustang experience. The noise, the powertrain that celebrates the past.

I am not anti anything. I own both. Right now, today I probably favour my turbo but it terms of product placement and the initial demand and what's driving these early numbers, there are way more factors than just the simple observations.

The ecoboost falcon is in my opinion one of the very best falcons made. It didn't sell. In mustang, with a company that struggles to sell this sort of development, ford have their work cut out.

It will happen. Moves like the Ford GT away from V8 is a sign change is coming to the door of ford as well.

The art of selling is about listening to what people want, think and value. You need to be able to read people.

There will undoubtedly come a time when the mustang experience will be recognised to encompass a greater acceptance. Right here, today with Mustang so fresh, good luck.

In time however, things will change.

pacificfordqld
5th February 2016, 12:57 PM
This is how I see what the Ecoboost Mustang is, a modern day 200SX, wait and see, the youth will latch onto this through drifting, videos games, etc and get a cult following. We already have Ken Block doing a fine job with this audience.

As a bonus, Ecoboost appeals to entry level buyers, those who cannot afford a V8 (and rego and fuel bills)

So, yes, Ecoboost in a Mustang is relevant in 2016 in my opinion, I think that's what this thread is about?




http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b552/barra240t/2000-nissan-200sx-e1333590001901_zpsq5sambze.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/barra240t/media/2000-nissan-200sx-e1333590001901_zpsq5sambze.jpg.html)

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b552/barra240t/torcdg6omnhqgc7z0u5h_zpswuibtj5p.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/barra240t/media/torcdg6omnhqgc7z0u5h_zpswuibtj5p.jpg.html)

4Vman
5th February 2016, 01:25 PM
No that's not what I read the thread to be about.

I read it to be about finding ways to force people to adopt the EB in place of the GT

FTe217
5th February 2016, 01:28 PM
Looking ahead pacific has future vision, that I agree with.
Pony will always have its V8 DNA to the old er buyer naturally and like minded V8 purchasers so it will always have its sales BUT the EB I expect just as pacific states the younger gen will aspire for one of these - as long as Ford back the EB with marketing in the future I see it gaining its share in sales long term, here EU and slowly in the US.
If I recall right they are dropping the 6pack - US rentals I expect will be alot more EB's, this would give many US punters a try, I expect they will be surprised/impressed.

edit - Norm, I think that went off track to me. You and Flappist ended up butting heads but I think it went awol.

defective
5th February 2016, 02:18 PM
There's already a pointers to gt500 being awd... Could ford pull one out of the hat and use the gt's v6 ecoboost instead of an 8?

prydey
5th February 2016, 03:55 PM
The art of selling is about listening to what people want,

while there is an element of that, i also think the art of selling, esp new products, is about telling people what they need to have.

for eg, consumers didn't ask for much of the handheld technology that is available today. companies developed it and then marketing people made people believe they had to have it.

flappist
5th February 2016, 03:59 PM
No that's not what I read the thread to be about.

I read it to be about finding ways to force people to adopt the EB in place of the GT

Seriously?

Did you actually read my initial post of did you get to "only the V8" and a red mist formed completely blinding you......

The thread was and is trying to discuss ways of making the EB appeal to a wider group of people who may not even remotely consider any Mustang because "it is a V8, everyone says so".
It is also about not shitcanning the EB because it is not a V8 and not shitcanning potential EB buyers calling them "hair dressers" etc.

I know this will come as a shock to you but MOST people do not want V8s and do not think "V8=performance".
Yes ALL SS and GT falcon buyers do and most current orders for Mustangs are V8 but the other 95% of cars being ordered are not.

It is 2016 not 1970 and unless the products are available to cover ALL sections of the market not just middle aged men going through a crisis then in a few years the Mustang as well as many other marques will join the valiants and leylands etc.

Look at Jeep. The original Jeep was a rag top go anywhere off road very tough vehicle. They made a few larger ones in the 1960s but basically lost the plot, did not move forward with technology and their market died.

I know this as I have had MANY discussions with the man who ran the Australian operation and manufacturing facility in Brisbane. He was my father.

Now Jeep relaunched their products and in addition to building an updated version of the traditional Jeep, as in ragtop, small, light with small engine, they made a whole range of models with different engines and totally different configurations.

They were very clever in their marketing as well.

"I bought a Jeep" not "I bought a Jeep Wrangler" nor "I bought a Chrysler Jeep" nor "I bought a Chrysler Jeep Grand Cherokee SVT V8".
A JEEP is a JEEP regardless of how many cylinders, how big, how many seats, what performance capability or anything else.

They were very smart and are selling squillions of them DESPITE their reputation for going boom.

I wonder if they had to contend with myopic train spotters who went bezerk at the mere thought of a Jeep having aircon, auto trans, and.........NOT A 4 CYLINDER ENGINE.....

Hackney
7th February 2016, 06:27 PM
Now I am aware that to some there is only the V8, but the ecoboost is here, well priced and will appeal to quite a few.

Our EB is rather pedestrian with the US spec performance pack not available. That pack has 4 spot brakes among other things.
From my research on "mods" the EB can easily pick up 60kw and 68Nm with minor changes and it appears that Ford themselves actually sell upgrade kits.

This would make the EB a 290+Kw 500Nm 1600kg performance car that should easily take out SS commodores and possibly even XR6Ts and STILL be under factory warranty.
Unfortunately, the Ecoboost has been a really "hard sell" for Ford,(especially in Falcon,& yes I do own one.). But hopefully they can gain more "traction" with Mustang, especially with the mods that will be come available.I would have one over an "eight" any day. :)

flappist
10th February 2016, 11:36 AM
1138

And look what I have been given to play with :)

FTe217
10th February 2016, 11:40 AM
Like the blue - look forward to your EB comments Flappist.

flappist
10th February 2016, 11:48 AM
I have it for two weeks. I have already done about 300km mostly in windy hilly roads that I know well. It handles amazingly well, easily in the same class as the 350Z and 335i I have driven on the same roads and as it has 430Nm and "flappy paddles" actually goes better than a B series XR6T and would give my GT-P a hard time.

I will write up a full review after a bit more time in it.

FTe217
10th February 2016, 12:36 PM
2wks ! that should be fun, chick magnet as well lol.........

flappist
10th February 2016, 12:40 PM
2wks ! that should be fun, chick magnet as well lol.........

It seriously is. I was being followed home by one of my employees and he made comment this morning how many people were staring as I drove along.

FTe217
10th February 2016, 01:37 PM
New bling on the sunshine coast Tony.
I can imagine how many will be around Goldy sooner or later.

13726548
10th February 2016, 03:57 PM
I saw a Black Conv last week and a yellow V8 2016 while down in SA last month.

Not my cup of tea .. but hey

Can i check it over for ya sometime Tony

:garage:

flappist
10th February 2016, 05:39 PM
And today I discovered Sport mode and Track mode. RTFM.......

13726548
10th February 2016, 05:40 PM
So now ya can mang mang or no ?

VZTRT
12th February 2016, 08:07 AM
And today I discovered Sport mode and Track mode. RTFM.......

You forgot about the spare wheel issue (while driving) didn't ya?

4Vman
12th February 2016, 08:08 AM
You forgot about the spare wheel issue (while driving) didn't ya?

Staph it....


You've just ruined it for him!!!

VZTRT
12th February 2016, 08:21 AM
Staph it....


You've just ruined it for him!!!

Its funny how good cars make small issues go away....or you work out a solution.

FTe217
12th February 2016, 09:40 AM
Maybe his DP mate threw in a spare for the back seat, about all its good for.

flappist
12th February 2016, 10:03 AM
You forgot about the spare wheel issue (while driving) didn't ya?

No actually I did not.

This one has a full size spare wheel fitted into the wheel well leaving the boot completely empty.

flappist
12th February 2016, 10:07 AM
Maybe his DP mate threw in a spare for the back seat, about all its good for.

Plenty of room in the back if you do not have the front seat fully back. I am 6'2" and with the drivers seat in a good position there is room behind me for a child up to about 10 or so.
With my wife in the LH seat (5'10") she can be comfortable in the front with another adult in the back.

I would not recommend that the Mustang would be suitable for a taxi though.......

pacificfordqld
12th February 2016, 11:25 AM
Plenty of room in the back if you do not have the front seat fully back. I am 6'2" and with the drivers seat in a good position there is room behind me for a child up to about 10 or so.
With my wife in the LH seat (5'10") she can be comfortable in the front with another adult in the back.

I would not recommend that the Mustang would be suitable for a taxi though.......

What about an Uber?

4Vman
12th February 2016, 11:34 AM
Based on my time in the back of one you'd need shares in a physio for neck issues if you were taller than about 5'5", or the alternative is lie across the back seat diagonally but either way it's really only for bags or luggage, not regular transport.

flappist
12th February 2016, 11:50 AM
Based on my time in the back of one you'd need shares in a physio for neck issues if you were taller than about 5'5", or the alternative is lie across the back seat diagonally but either way it's really only for bags or luggage, not regular transport.

It has more room than my ute......

4Vman
12th February 2016, 12:06 PM
It has more room than my ute......

LOL

Very true.

Our ute though can seat 3 adults as its a column shift bench FG2..!

flappist
12th February 2016, 12:16 PM
Ok, another thought:

Part 1)
If EB Mustangs were available as rentals from Hertz/Avis/whomever for about the same price as other $50k cars would anyone be interested in renting one rather than a commodore/falcon/aurion/suv?
(N.B. not for your holiday when you have 37 children, 3 tons of bags and a pop up caravan you smuggled on to the aircraft disguised as hand luggage)

Part 2)
If there were ex rental EBs for $25k-$30k for sale would you be interested in buying one?

4Vman
12th February 2016, 12:21 PM
Ok, another thought:

Part 1)
If EB Mustangs were available as rentals from Hertz/Avis/whomever for about the same price as other $50k cars would anyone be interested in renting one rather than a commodore/falcon/aurion/suv?
(N.B. not for your holiday when you have 37 children, 3 tons of bags and a pop up caravan you smuggled on to the aircraft disguised as hand luggage)

Part 2)
If there were ex rental EBs for $25k-$30k for sale would you be interested in buying one?

1) Absolutely.

I have no need to carry passengers or rear access for boxes etc when i travel interstate for work so an EB Mustang is ideal.

2) Nup, not interested in second hand vehicles.

FTe217
12th February 2016, 12:57 PM
Yep but to buying a ex rental, no way.

I actually hope EB's will be available as a rental anytime soon, I'll book one.

flappist
12th February 2016, 01:16 PM
Yep it is interesting that almost everyone will never buy an ex rental but so many have no problem with ex Police cars.....

4Vman
12th February 2016, 01:25 PM
Yep it is interesting that almost everyone will never buy an ex rental but so many have no problem with ex Police cars.....

Stop reading AFF lol

Nobody here does that.

FTe217
12th February 2016, 01:25 PM
Wouldn't buy ANY ex rental/ex gov/council/etcetctc type of used vehicle.
What others are willing to buy or not buy doesn't matter.

flappist
12th February 2016, 02:18 PM
Yes I suspected that they buying s/h would not be popular with our people but the plot is to get as many people to "test drive" Mustangs as possible.

Some my buy GTs, other buy EBs but all will have experience and when asked "what are they like" will reply based on actual experience rather than what they have read on the internet and in magazines.

pacificfordqld
12th February 2016, 03:59 PM
Does that include ex FoMoCo cars too? Because I own and it's been a great second hand buy!

If I could get a Mustang between $25-$30k I'd be very interested.

PG2
12th February 2016, 07:04 PM
I'm going to be hated for this aren't I?

I own a FG MKII XR6 ex-renter. It is the second best car that I have owned - best car being a XE ESP.

defective
12th February 2016, 08:23 PM
I'd never discount a car simply because of its previous owner/role.

I look at every car on its merits. I'd like the idea of a cheaper eb mustang too, depending on history of course.

Mate of mine has an ex-popo Ve ss commodore, the thing is mint and he got it for a song. I have no idea what it was used for but it certainly has not had a hard life.

But getting as many as possible to test drive, and thus want a mustang is completely pointless if ford keep strangling supply. To have to wait over a year for any car is beyond stupid.

flappist
15th February 2016, 12:20 PM
I had a friend take it for a splat on Sunday. Wants one in ragtop manual but they don't make manuals.

jpd80
15th February 2016, 04:22 PM
See that's the thing for me, while enthuiasts will buy the V8 night and day,
walk ins and different buyers may actually be turned onto the Ecoboost Mustang.

Sure it can't carry three child seats in the rear or tow 3,500Kg trailer or 40 foot caravan
but a lot of people who already own a light truck or SUV have that covered..

It's like the people who would never consider owning one have to go out of their way
to show how everyone else thinks like them and would never choose a coupe over a sedan
because we must always defer to past experience when chartering a course for the future..

flappist
15th February 2016, 04:51 PM
There will always be the die hard "gotta be a V8" people who will buy the V8 regardless of any other consideration.

But the world is changing. G6ET sold its arse off, V8 Ghia was almost stillborn
V8 wagons died at AU.
BMW are making very few V8s anymore.

Yes the FPV GT was the biggest seller but there really were not many of them sold of any type and they were squarely focussed on the "GT" market and interestingly all the FPV V8s that were not "GT" were flops.

The more I play with this car the more fun it is and if I am really lucky I might even get to play with a Mustang GT as well.
There are heaps of people who buy 86/370/Lexus/335/TT/(insert hot hatch here)/BRZ/WRX etc. and the EB is a brilliant fit into that market.

Of course there will always be the "but why did you not buy the fast one?" question asked. I wonder how all the B series and early FG GT/GT-P/GT-E/GS buyers answered that same question......

P.S. I got rolled on Sunday morning at a static. The young coppers were not interested in my license or anything else other than to ask me about the Mustang. It sure does grab attention from everywhere.

prydey
15th February 2016, 05:33 PM
but a lot of people who already own a light truck or SUV have that covered..

It's like the people who would never consider owning one have to go out of their way
to show how everyone else thinks like them and would never choose a coupe over a sedan
because we must always defer to past experience when chartering a course for the future..

couldn't you use this same argument against the 'must be a v8' crowd?

defective
15th February 2016, 06:22 PM
Of course there will always be the "but why did you not buy the fast one?" question asked. I wonder how all the B series and early FG GT/GT-P/GT-E/GS buyers answered that same question......
.

Every time I rolled up to a car meet, or even just a bunch of car guys together with my FG xr8 I would get that question.
Is it a turbo? No, that's why it's got xr8 badges....
Oh.
Turbos faster... I know
Cheaper to run too... I know
Cheaper to register... I know
Why didn't you buy a turbo? Cos I wanted a v8.

Ironically I reckon at least half of the ones asking the question also weren't driving a late model turbo.

VZTRT
16th February 2016, 07:38 AM
Every time I rolled up to a car meet, or even just a bunch of car guys together with my FG xr8 I would get that question.
Is it a turbo? No, that's why it's got xr8 badges....
Oh.
Turbos faster... I know
Cheaper to run too... I know
Cheaper to register... I know
Why didn't you buy a turbo? Cos I wanted a v8.

Ironically I reckon at least half of the ones asking the question also weren't driving a late model turbo.

Plenty of 'experts' tell you the car you should have bought. Funny these people always seem to drive shitboxes, so you normally don't take much notice.

flappist
16th February 2016, 07:52 AM
Every time I rolled up to a car meet, or even just a bunch of car guys together with my FG xr8 I would get that question.
Is it a turbo? No, that's why it's got xr8 badges....
Oh.
Turbos faster... I know
Cheaper to run too... I know
Cheaper to register... I know
Why didn't you buy a turbo? Cos I wanted a v8.

Ironically I reckon at least half of the ones asking the question also weren't driving a late model turbo.

Exactly my point. Buy and drive what you like for your reasons not for anyone elses.....

TS50
16th February 2016, 09:58 AM
I was watching one of the car shows on Turbo Max last week
and they were talking about the GT350-H that Hertz in the states used to rent

Apparently a lot of them were rented, the motor taken out and another cheaper V8 installed
They said Ford and Hertz were not amused, and that's why the program didn't continue

flappist
16th February 2016, 10:17 AM
Doing swaps on rentals has been around for ever. I remember one big case here where autos were being swapped out of, I think, Kingswoods as they tended to die a lot.

4Vman
16th February 2016, 10:25 AM
Doing swaps on rentals has been around for ever. I remember one big case here where autos were being swapped out of, I think, Kingswoods as they tended to die a lot.

People used to rent F100's and swap out the 31 spline Detroit locker 9" centres and replace them with 28 spline single spinners lol

TS50
16th February 2016, 10:55 AM
dead serious?
my god people are so stupid

dash gt
16th February 2016, 11:43 AM
dead serious?
my god people are so stupid

Isn't that how you make your XT look like a Fairmont Ghia??

Lol.

I know dealers swapping parts off brand new cars with low km cars that have complaints. Eg. scratched door trims etc. Kind of the same but not really.

defective
16th February 2016, 04:27 PM
Yeah, have to admit in my younger less law abiding days test drives were the preferred means of obtaining needed parts. Was viewed as a victimless crime such was the hatred of car dealers back then.

TS50
16th February 2016, 04:44 PM
I must be too straight and too ....

prydey
16th February 2016, 05:08 PM
i've obviously lived a sheltered life as its the first i've heard of that sort of scam. can't say i'm impressed. theft is theft.

TS50
16th February 2016, 06:32 PM
i've obviously lived a sheltered life as its the first i've heard of that sort of scam. can't say i'm impressed. theft is theft.

with you thee mate

Randel
16th February 2016, 10:16 PM
i've obviously lived a sheltered life as its the first i've heard of that sort of scam. can't say i'm impressed. theft is theft.

Yep, agreed

Franco Cozzo
17th February 2016, 06:02 AM
Be interesting to see what the Ecoboost will do with all the first go to mods like:

FMIC
Intake
Exhaust
Turbo upgrade (EFR 6258, very street friendly)
Tune

Its like the XR6T all over again, this car is the pick for us younger enthusiasts.

defective
17th February 2016, 04:04 PM
Be interesting to see what the Ecoboost will do with all the first go to mods like:

FMIC
Intake
Exhaust
Turbo upgrade (EFR 6258, very street friendly)
Tune

Its like the XR6T all over again, this car is the pick for us younger enthusiasts.

Highly modded ones in the states are already punching out well in excess of 5-600hp

jpd80
19th February 2016, 12:39 AM
A basic drive in drive out tune for 2.3 EB nets around same power and torque as std XR6T.
probably good enough to drop the 1/4 mile times from low 14s to low 13s.