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HSE2
26th September 2015, 04:51 PM
Jackson Motor Company Mustang Launch.

I have to say this was a pretty good event. Capt Slows stitched me up not once but twice but yes that aside it was a good event to attend.

Politics.
As far as presentations go it was nice. I am assuming each dealership is specific to themselves rather than Ford mandating a particular presentation. The video was something stolen from the web on the design of the new car.

The dealership also ran a promotion where if you purchased a Mustang before the Bathurst weekend you went in to the draw to win a trip to the following round on the gold coast. It was a little weird seeing the FPR falcon doing a loop on the monitor to promote the comp with the mustang in the foreground. Not to be out done there was a racing mustang outside as part of the display that greeted people.
Understandably one patron took it as a sign Ford were racing the Mustang. What I thought was an easy thing to explain turned out to be actually very painful.

GM seem to have found themselves in a position of effectively leaving the V8 market or at least the affordable end. You could look at this two ways. It's a opportunity to go all out and capture as many as you can and racing does indeed cover more ground or you can say without direct competition it would be wasting more money.

They say ford leaving the V8 was a catalyst for a ground swell toward Holden. If you believe that, if you think its remotely possible, then this is the perfect opportunity to grab the attention of the youth. You have the market to yourself, the rules allow for it, i can't see how it would hurt so on this point I am changing my mind from No to racing Mustang to yes. GM stuffing up has presented a fantastic avenue to complete domination. Every persons heart you grab while there is nothing robbing you of attention is one heart they have to fight real hard to get back.
That's the view of someone not training in marketing obviously.

Is it ford or not.
The hot topic right now is the enhancement side. And it's only a topic because Ford initially aren't letting us have anything other then the GT spec 5.0. So yeah thats a problem because as you can see from our other outstanding thread, this creates an issue where people that would normally buy top shelf factory options are being forced down a particular path and have above all else concerns and questions. Its is not the ideal solution and while i might question its sustainability moving forward, I have no objection if all the bases are covered and there is no misconception.

So on this point, no we didn't hear the words Ford factory support but instead learnt of a dealer joint partnership with Herrod. The good about this is Herrod are a reputable tuning outfit who have strong ties to Ford in the US and here. But that isnt ford backed and this is where it gets confusing.
Ford Performance is the amalgamation of three entities into one. SVT, Team RS and Ford racing. I believe Rob had some agreement with Ford racing which is essentially the parts branch of the business. Ford racing suggested one thing, ford performance suggests something else and I think this is misleading and I am surprised Herrod are allowed to use that title. I am surprised ford Australia have actually got into a position to clear that use of that title as it pertains to road going product that is about to get here next year. It suggests they have decided to forgo the brand use for themselves which indeed there was no mention of at this launch of which technically the Mustng GT is supposed to be.

My advice with any of this stuff is I would want to see the warranty agreement and I would run it past my own lawyer. I would indeed have questions about the impact of these mods on the safety systems and depending on the answers i would probably contact Ford for a written response, which would end up going through legal quicker than you can blink. I obviously don't support this model but if it's been thought out correctly and every aspect is above board, it is as they say, all gravy.
But at this time, until further details are presented to the contrary, any mention of enhancement being supported by Ford is incorrect and its being done through an intermediate party.

I just want one?

Wellllll No. So Maurice can stop reading now because the number of lines has exceeded his attention span.

Lets deal with the negatives first. There are few.
As I haven't followed the mustang or done any research I cant delve into the content that's been removed for our market. What I would say is that if you package and aim a product at the premium end and you then take content out to get it to a price and this is viewable to the consumer, that's an issue. Allow the consumer to have the choice because it's not nice to be presented with a premium product but yet know you are being cheated. It is however not an issue with me.

Its my understanding that the bonnet vents are something we don't get. That's a shame because I am maintaining my opinion its just not as nice as the last model directly front on.

I have two types of cars. Ones I use because I have to and ones i use when I want to.
In the first category one of the requirements is to carry my golf equipment and in later times my bike. So before I get this put to me that my ute only has two doors, yes that's true but its also true that the space behind the cabin functions. Now don't shoot me, but for me in this role this car should play, no I cant make it work.

The space is actually quite large and you would have absolutely no issues with luggage for a road trip for three people, well two but I will get to that in a minute.
The problem is the opening design. To cater for what can only be described as an exquisite rear end the opening actually compromises the shape you have to work with. My golf kit is the full pro spec bag with a custom built buggy that's attached full time and that folds into itself. I work on the theory that if you play like shit but look the part you are about par for the course. I don't believe I could separate bag and buggy and make it fit. Now this doesn't kill it completely but it rules it out as a replacement for either the ute or the Xr8 as daily duties. And yes the golf kit fits in the falcon and if I fold the seat down I get my brothers in there too although you have to be careful.

We did do the rear seat challenge. Look, it is what it is. Leg room when you get down to it is what i would call acceptable provided the front seat occupant isn't 6 feet tall in Mustang language. Once in there I am told the seat was actually very comfortable but there is a problem. You are going to get a sore neck because you simply can't sit up straight. I am actually disappointed about this because a bucket list items was a mustang trip on route 66 and in all seriousness you couldn't take three people in it.

So yes its a sports car and yes its really a two seater but for me I would remove the seat and maybe just have it as storage. It only suitable for children. Just back on the boot for a minute. I thought it was funny it was equipped with two gas struts when the bonnet has a 1970 brace. I had to get that in there .

As a daily no I couldnt use this car. Not without checking out the competition anyway. If it were to turn out that Mustang is actually best in class for rear seat head room then obviously my criticism would then turn to praise followed by don't bother to rest on your laurels. If you are going to fit a seat make it usable or piss it off and save some weight.

Ok you can come back now the good stuff is about to start.

I didnt mind the idle sound. I thought it was ok.
I loved the front seats. massive head room up front, not too claustrophobic anywhere else. The switch gear had a quality feel that was suggested by the pictures. Miles ahead of what we have in falcon. The minor detailing is very nice, attention to detail save some ergonomic issues that might disappear with the rhd version. The steering wheel has plenty of buttons and felt nice. I am maintaining my view on the main cluster with that tradition needing to give way to technology, the centre and yes even the eye brow is better than I had thought. Yes the main screen is too low and these days bordering on the small size at 8 inches. If you haven't got 10 by now you are 2012. The down side there is sun glare. FG2 does get it but on balance for safety reasons up high is my vote. There was only really one finishing that was worse than falcon but it was so hard to take it all in with some many people lined up to sit in it.

A test drive would be required for me.

The role of the toy.

Yes this is what it must be for me and I can see it working in that capacity. The problem is I have enough toys and this doesnt move the game on in a way i could justify moving something at this time. That might sound odd when you consider this thing would flog everything I own on a track and match most in a straight line. The problem is that as a toy I am more likely to require comfort for at least three than I would as a daily. I am probably entertaining or on business. That's one issue. The main one is that I don't feel it moves me to the next step that I want a toy purchase to take.
It could be argued that presentation wise and feature wise this car is that step and yes I guess that's right. My GTs are stunning to look at or I think they are. It would be massive to move one on for this car so please don't be offended mustang fans, you need to take all this in on perspective.

I genuinely feel the RS offers me a chance this car falls just short of. To be completely sure I would need it for a day to see if I could make it liveable.

I loved the rims, I loved the colour, that or blue or grey would be my pick but i have another confession to make.

This bullshit about the future, the motorsport side, the lack of a hero Mustang, it's just a massive turn off.

If these things were settled, If ford were moving forward with racing Mustang I cant be 100% certain I wouldn't have ordered one on the night. I just can't escape the feeling ford are trying to be someone they are not and that's not something I can endorse. I don't like the conflict or the confusion that surrounds this car right now. If Ford cant embrace the mustang tradition, its heritage and its passion then what is there to make me accept things I am not 100% onboard with. Racing actually plays that part for me because i do get brand satisfaction through the company depiction of participation in passion. You don't race if you aren't passionate about your company or brand and while I concede they have reasons they are simply not good enough for me. The prospect of Frosty racing one of these would be exciting and I do believe I would want to be part of that. I feel like this because as it stands this product isn't 100% for me there and it needs to be.

I am proud of what they have accomplished here with this car. That's genuine, but so too is the sense of confusion with actions and words and as it sits in the street right now it in my mind reflects a sense of denial for what Mustang stands for and I can't accept that. Why cant it just be a car? It can- for 3000 people it is- but none of my purchases have worked like that and I am someone who keeps coming back for more.

This is a very nice car, its just not for me at this stage of its offering and social setting but I have stayed loyal and I will have something to announce soonish. I have decided to pass on mustang this time but congratulate the 3000 plus who have made the jump. Well done to you all.

4Vman
26th September 2015, 05:12 PM
Nice review, well done.

On a personal level I too can't make Mustang work either, I'm glad it can forfill the needs of some out there but In the same way I cant make a ute work neither can I make do with Mustangs limitations which is a big disappointment because that means XR8 will be the last ever economically priced multi functional V8 Musclecar sold by Ford.

Without being rude here there was a notable "theme" about the majority of those identified as Mustang owners (Special name tag).
I think a large % are going to be weekenders and empty nester presents.

HSE2
26th September 2015, 06:12 PM
I think its important to add that I heard no one be critical about it at all.

The majority loved it.

You cant hold a key design element that distinguishes sports cars against it.
As one old lady said, you don't buy this if you need to transport people in the back.

It ticks the boxes most want today. I am a huge jag fan, especially the f type. This came up last night and I have to say I have changed my mind. I think I would take this. Simon, the guy with me at the time agreed with me because of the heritage and history. This is the guys who couldn't believe the racing development. He kept coming back to me and I guess it was this aspect on the night that just reverberated all over.

At one point I remember thinking to myself, yeah I get it now.

I have every reason to think in the future most of my issues today will be rectified.

I have always said if the right version of mustang came along I would be keen. Nothing has changed other than perhaps I want that to occur more today then I did this time yesterday.

4Vman
26th September 2015, 06:20 PM
I think its important to add that I heard no one be critical about it at all.

The majority loved it.

You cant hold a key design element that distinguishes sports cars against it.
As one old lady said, you don't buy this if you need to transport people in the back.

It ticks the boxes most want today. I am a huge jag fan, especially the f type. This came up last night and I have to say I have changed my mind. I think I would take this. Simon, the guy with me at the time agreed with me because of the heritage and history. This is the guys who couldn't believe the racing development. He kept coming back to me and I guess it was this aspect on the night that just reverberated all over.

At one point I remember thinking to myself, yeah I get it now.

I have every reason to think in the future most of my issues today will be rectified.

I have always said if the right version of mustang came along I would be keen. Nothing has changed other than perhaps I want that to occur more today then I did this time yesterday.

Absolutely.

100%.

Supporting sub niches in the performance segment is very important and Mustang is the perfect product to round out a comprehensive performance portfolio.

Bluestuff1
26th September 2015, 06:48 PM
Absolutely.

100%.

Supporting sub niches in the performance segment is very important and Mustang is the perfect product to round out a comprehensive performance portfolio.

No : there is still a gapping hole for a larger 4 door performance car..........

A Mondo AWD RS V6 would fill that hole, but not for another 12 months at least.

I would like a Mustang, but cant really justify 2 toys, nor garage space.

For those who want one, should buy one..!
They are cool looking .

WASP
26th September 2015, 06:57 PM
I very enjoyable write up Ian, thank you. I many ways I left my own local event feeling the same way accept for the seating and golf issues. In my case a Mustang could become my daily and replace the turbo. Being a little smaller would actually be better. It does everything I need and more. They really are a beautiful car for the money in the GT form.

HSE2
26th September 2015, 07:24 PM
I very enjoyable write up Ian, thank you. I many ways I left my own local event feeling the same way accept for the seating and golf issues. In my case a Mustang could become my daily and replace the turbo. Being a little smaller would actually be better. It does everything I need and more. They really are a beautiful car for the money in the GT form.

Yes. Absolutely spot on.

The seating isnt really a problem. You know it, you deal with it and as far as golf goes its probably the worse sport for this sort if thing. I don't belong to a club anymore and just play fees but if you are a member you used to be able to store tour clubs at the course. Obviously that only works for playing one course.


I don't think I can think up something else where it wouldn't work.

When you go to work if you aren't car pooling you are by yourself. A work out afterwards, basketball, cricket, football squash even the shopping, it will work fine.

Maybe for some the length of bonnet and low seating position might be an issue. Don't know about that one till you drive it.

I obviously hope to get a chance to drive one one day.

Its a lifestyle choice, a sports car, its a statement car. I don't think there is escaping this, unless you are fords marketing.

We lose one 50 year icon and we gain another. Its a shame, no criminal, ford cant yet see the strength in the similarities in the rush to distance falcon.

TS50
26th September 2015, 07:24 PM
I was surprised by the number of females I spoke to last night that were very positive towards the Mustang, a lot more than I had anticipated

FTe217
26th September 2015, 08:20 PM
Its Exceeded spell check not exceed :)

By the way - a very well rounded description of your experience at Jackson, Slow done good by the sound of it but no content ?.
Slow, what was your thought of the car ?

HSE2
26th September 2015, 08:59 PM
That's Apples word check for you. Nothing to do with spelling.

Bluestuff1
27th September 2015, 06:37 AM
That's Apples word check for you. Nothing to do with spelling.

Does your IPad drive you nuts with its " own" version of spell and grammar check etc ?

HSE2
27th September 2015, 07:45 AM
Its rubbish. I don't know why I persist using it for anything meaningful. Mind you that's no excuse to not proof read.

I do just want to echo what Andrew said about the women and their response. They were I think more over the top with it then the men. I noticed that too.

4Vman
27th September 2015, 07:53 AM
Its rubbish. I don't know why I persist using it for anything meaningful. Mind you that's no excuse to not proof read.

I do just want to echo what Andrew said about the women and their response. They were I think more over the top with it then the men. I noticed that too.

I know one Woman who's bought the most expensive Mustang available: Optioned Convert GT..

Bluestuff1
27th September 2015, 08:16 AM
A convertable is kinda cool tho....

Just thinkin about sunburn on top of the cranial cavity....

HSE2
27th September 2015, 08:32 AM
I was thinking over night that the convertible would solve that rear seat issue. So renting one in the US and buying four umbrellas would fix this issue.

You cant have an exterior that looks as it does and fix this issue. A bubbled glass area perhaps, but the other thing is that if you are short enough to sit up straight you are going to get pretty hot with the sun on glass being so close to your head.

It will be 2020 but the time there is one to drive down here and who knows I might have given up playing golf by then. To go to and from work, it would do that nicely. Not sure what it would be like on hitting tassies wildlife but pricewise I heard anything from 56 to 62k. The XR8 when new in 98 was either 52 or 55 and that went straight into work duties. At some time in my life I will probably talk myself into one but not right now.

Seeing the motorsport imagery used on the night, knowing Fords stance on that subject did annoy me. Having people talk like it was expected and seeing the dismay ford would do that, was just another one of those examples that go down on my list regarding this specific situation.

I am not making this up to make my option sound more than it is. On the night people were talking about Bathurst and yes this one person who just assumed we were going to race mustang. So confused about that he came back to me not once, not twice but three times on the subject with different thoughts and questions. He owns a 67 Mustang and no he probably wouldn't buy the new one for a different reason and no nothing to do with this subject.

This car is going to look amazing in the street of our cities, I just keep coming back to timing. At this particular stage of its introduction I wouldn't be taking risks, I wouldn't want to be causing confusion and I would want to be consistent with what is supposed to be one Ford.

There is this supposedly a three year window of establishment between the old and new. They want to completely divorce them selves of the old when people like us are trying to see some of the old in the new if that makes sense. If you rated the people remaining on just being Ford no matter what, doesn't matter what ford do or say, that sort of loyalty, would be pretty small I would image.

This comes back to that question of what is ford.

Holden are stuffing up. They are using the symbol of innocence and purity to project a future and are doing it while being deceitful and unethical. Someone should bring child abuse claims against them. I know some here approve of Holden's tactics, I don't. If Holden who are committed to go racing try to race something that isn't available in a V8 then I don't think it will work the same way as it does in nascar. That has the potential to cause a massive disconnect with lets call it the current level of V8 support in Holden's ranks. If Holden are going to stockpile V8s this potentially is why. Not having the product stops people from buying it but it doesn't automatically stop them from buying the brand. Seeing someone else participate in a manner that's less of a lie goes to the brand value.

Ford racing a V8 that looks cool on the street, wins on the track, goes back 50 plus years with tradition and heritage, that is consistently endorsed by the company and is available for 60 k, thats a lot of homerun material that I would have thought would be hard to ignore. After seeing the reaction of the women at this particular launch, I cant see how they would care if it was raced but when I pointed to the picture of Frosty racing falcon and suggested Ford think that's an image that prevents people from buying their cars, he first laughed then well he came back three times.

If you don't think about this stuff you are on the side of it doesn't matter either way. If you do start to think about this stuff well it doesn't make sense.

HSE2
27th September 2015, 09:12 AM
https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/t31.0-8/11999634_1056079467749251_4584947544537789151_o.jp g

HSE2
27th September 2015, 09:13 AM
https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/11999705_1173964342620234_4628506821994002205_o.jp g

HSE2
27th September 2015, 09:14 AM
https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/12029853_1173964345953567_6823311004672699696_o.jp g

WASP
27th September 2015, 12:39 PM
My gosh that looks good Ian. We don't get those 20" wheels apparently. They are the best ones. We had the convertible at our launch and I must say it looked very very smart and I'm not a convertible fan. The porportions in some respects work better on the convertible than the coupe.

defective
27th September 2015, 12:42 PM
Such a good looking car.

4Vman
27th September 2015, 12:43 PM
My gosh that looks good Ian. We don't get those 20" wheels apparently. They are the best ones. We had the convertible at our launch and I must say it looked very very smart and I'm not a convertible fan. The porportions in some respects work better on the convertible than the coupe.

You need to go dark colors with the Convertible IMO, the contrast between the roof and body color is too much if you get a light colored one.

We get these 19" wheels, Black Std and silver as an option:

http://mttwheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2015-ford-mustang-wheels-02.jpg

http://www.kentmustang.com/application/files/7514/2188/0222/wheels-custompack.gif

WASP
27th September 2015, 12:54 PM
We get these 19" wheels, Black Std and silver as an option

Mmm, well I don't like dark wheels and I don't like that wheel design so that's not the best start. This is so typically Ford. First run of imported models from an options point of view comes up short. You end up compromising only to see them rectify in a later version what seemed obvious in the first place.

4Vman
27th September 2015, 01:03 PM
Mmm, well I don't like dark wheels and I don't like that wheel design so that's not the best start. This is so typically Ford. First run of imported models from an options point of view comes up short. You end up compromising only to see them rectify in a later version what seemed obvious in the first place.

The bonnet vents will be an issue too, for the life of me I don't know why you'd display a version you're not selling the customers you've invited.. WITH features they will want but cant have.

The overwhelming weight of opinion was disappointment about the absence of the vents

WASP
27th September 2015, 01:46 PM
The overwhelming weight of opinion was disappointment about the absence of the vents
I wonder what the issue is, and in why we don't get them? The VF2 has vents, admittedly further back on the bonnet so I doubt its a ADR issue. I appreciate we get some features of the performance pack standard but they are mucking about with some of the key selling features and character of the car. It all gets to hard in the end making its easier to buy something else or wait.

4Vman
27th September 2015, 01:51 PM
I wonder what the issue is, and in why we don't get them? The VF2 has vents, admittedly further back on the bonnet so I doubt its a ADR issue. I appreciate we get some features of the performance pack standard but they are mucking about with some of the key selling features and character of the car. It all gets to hard in the end making its easier to buy something else or wait.

Can only think of styling or cost saving reasons, they are as good as flush to the bonnet with rear facing louvers so I cant see them being a pedestrian collision issue.

Their absence will certainly soften the appearance, maybe a ploy to remove that horrible "motorsport" stigma link?

Donut King
27th September 2015, 04:02 PM
Leaving things in the parts bin for higher spec/performance offerings when falcon is out of the way?

HSE2
27th September 2015, 05:31 PM
This is somewhat of a disappointment to learn.

If I were to give feedback to ford on this I would say the following.

There should have been a ford person with the car and that person should be giving the presentation. If you cant do that then make a video and have that played. This way you have consistency in your message. As a company you cant cite our confusion over situations if you are comp0licate in putting confusion in play. One Ford also means one way and you should always strive to make it the best way.

Don't show people cars they cant buy.
I think we can get our heads around the left hand drive aspect but these rims, that's a no for me. Its not the redline deception level but you are showing us an option that's not available and that's the same thing.

Yes it might sell some people but it doesn't work for me. Once the decision was made to not bring this rim in then someone should have been saying we need to stop showing the car like this. Its not ok to show a left hand drive car and assume people will just think "well its a US spec car something will be different". Rims are a big issue and Ford know this. Its been an issue with Falcon now forever.

If this had been me running this on behalf of Ford I would have insisted on freighting out the correct rims if I couldn't have got the cars as close to spec as I could have before they left the US.

I would be taping up the vents and I would be sticking the correct colour tape on the rear indicators or a person goes with the car and explains all this to the group as an interactive disclaimer.

FTe217
27th September 2015, 06:02 PM
I'm with the no black wheels as some know - also thinking for those prospective buyers just on the budget of buying one the silver ones as an option cost more I suppose ?
Not a big fan of the design - maybe staggered could look ok ?
I agree on not having a near on display vehicle as what your going have in the market - a real no no for me.
Spot on about having a Ford HQ product/sales manager or whoever should be the guest of x DP showing and unveiling the new Thing to market - like that is even more of a bloody stupid way entering the market - Ian, I have launched many new lines over the years (American brands) and the first thing done is lining up their best PR or manager to help support the launch.
Have to say - the shape sure is appealing, they have done a great job on this pony.